X-103 Thera ep

Hiya

Can anyone direct me to any records that are similar to Thera ep, I don’t mean in greatness per se, I mean In style/sound, lovely and harsh/ noisy techno that’s almost hardcore and from 92 to 95 in time window.

Perhaps something quirky I’ve missed

Been through axis, Hardwax and even industrial strength but can’t seem to find anything quite like the Thera ep.

Thanks

the Circuit Breaker EP on Probe is maybe the most obvious one, i suspect you probably know that one?

these come to mind:

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/21581-S-Bicknell-The-Remix-EP - B2 "Lords Of Afford" remix...which is Andrew Weatherall, rather incredibly!

i'm sure there's some others i'm gonna kick myself for not including...i think this sound is quite specific to a certain period in 92-93, when techno artists were flirting with distortion, but before the harder stuff split into a separate sound and the BPMs increased (which wasn't that long, considering how fast the music was changing in the early 90s).

that's why a lot of the examples are not full EPs, but rather 1 or 2 hard tracks on an EP with other styles (certainly true of the "Thera EP".)

and i think this sound quickly developed into the "hard acid" sound of Drop Bass, Djungle, Eurk et al.

almost forgot: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/16662-Trauma-Trauma - love this EP, but "Trauma" and "Shock" probably fit here.

not forgetting other Italian insanity:
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/150041-Various-We-Were-In-The-Future "Coldbringer", holy shit.

honestly, the stuff coming out of Rome on labels like ACV, Sounds Never Seen, Sysmo etc in the early 90s was just as interesting, experimental and mind-bending as P or Rephlex...

And for slightly later stuff, the label that's really worth going through is Re-load - not necessarily the same vibe, but definitely the place to go for the harder-edged techno.

Traffic cone wow 🤩

Some crazy knowledge you have for sure.

Every example you have given is absolutely amazing, that monster track is certainly a monster.

Makes me wonder if this kind of stuff is what influenced Dj freak, I’ve noticed lots of Jeff mills ways of doing things in freak tracks,
It’s almost like freak was trying to be a hardcore Jeff mills ( I mean that positively )

Going to listen at all those examples again in the morning, can’t wait 😛

Wtf, that sounds never seen label is insane, this stuff is definitely ‘before it’s time’
I mean this stuff makes zekt - experiment….look not experimental.

It’s like Venetian snares and aphex twin had an idea for a label…….🙏🤩

1993 though…. Wtf

in a way it was also the perfect time for artists with an experimental outlook, because there was more of a blank page, so to speak. so much that still hadn't been done. for example one of Leo Anibaldi's earliest releases from 1991 had one breakbeat track called "Bassbar", that was picked up in the UK by Top Buzz (played on their famous Fantazia NYE 91-92 set)...itself pretty ahead of its time. But made all the more impressive by the fact it was just 1 track on a 6 track EP, and really the only tune he did in that style too.

this is an interesting writeup on the Rome scene: https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2015/10/italian-techno-feature

(one sad thing that article does mention is the guy who ran ACV/Hot Trax fucking over his artists - that's why he has a credit on lots of those releases, as a way of taking the publishing money. Seems to be a few Italian labels that did this...)

Lory D did actually do one EP for P many years later: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/102972-Lory-D-Future-Dance-Floor - obviously not as cutting edge but "4/4 Revenge" is a great tune.

Scatter.Gun
It’s almost like freak was trying to be a hardcore Jeff mills ( I mean that positively )

to be fair Jeff Mills only really did a couple of tracks in that vein, I wouldn't say they represent his style that much. But I would say Freak's style definitely has a more general "techno" structure to it - lots of loops & repetition, fewer breaks...I suspect some of that must be Mike Humphries, who he made some of his earlier tunes with - and who went on to do tons of harder techno throughout the 90s (check out the "Cold Dust" releases for example)

Scatter.Gun
Hiya

Can anyone direct me to any records that are similar to Thera ep, I don’t mean in greatness per se, I mean In style/sound, lovely and harsh/ noisy techno that’s almost hardcore and from 92 to 95 in time window.

Perhaps something quirky I’ve missed

Been through axis, Hardwax and even industrial strength but can’t seem to find anything quite like the Thera ep.

Thanks

You might want to check out my mixes under the DJ Oblique, and later on as 0bleak. I kind specialize in noisy rhythmic stuff in different styles and tempos.

I've actually played some of the stuff that traffic_cone mentions, and also the X-103 track.

anyway, sticking to your 92-95 time window:

Definitely check the artist ADC - they started in 95.

1 or 2 tracks on the early Reload releases https://discogs.cinepelis.org/artist/1791-Reload
Also, the track Teq on their album.

the first couple releases by Electronome have 1 or 2 tracks: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/artist/13348-Electronome

and perhaps this https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/7415310-Automatic-Sound-Unlimited-Tu4Bx0-EP01-Tu4Bx2-EP02

Also the artist Virtus.

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/181423-arani-2099-It-Will-Be-What-It-Was - maybe the track New Wave 3

perhaps https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/77978-Fret-Fret

and definitely https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/5119-Cylob-Industrial-Folk-Songs (same person as Kinesthesia)

traffic_cone
the Circuit Breaker EP on Probe is maybe the most obvious one, i suspect you probably know that one?

overlooked but as good as the CB twelve: Various - The Silicon Ghetto EP Vol. 1 - https://youtu.be/I2NX-r3yJQs

Color Climax Corporation - Lust Probe E.P. - https://youtu.be/2usfsHvwWvs

Zekt - Second Half EP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryJpTaS7peU

Wow those early reload releases, almost prodigy vibes! Like dark side prodigy or something 😂😂

Half of this stuff must of sounded insane when it came out,

I’m gonna stick my neck out and say something that’s perhaps a little embarrassing, back when I was younger I would not of been able to ‘understand’ this level of experimentation back when these records came out.

I’m gonna be double embarrassed, there once was a time many years ago, that I couldn’t understand’ or ‘get’ the Dj freak kind of stuff, there was once a a time I referred to that kind of stuff as noise.
Most of the freak stuff I wouldn’t of appreciated when it came out in the 90’s
I actually feel bad for it and wish I had of been less closed minded to sounds I didn’t understand.

Again, god knows how this stuff sounded in 92 etc, Lisa stansfield is on the radio and then this stuff 😂

BUNKERHEADZ
VCF - Neon EP - https://youtu.be/cDBr0AOzufY

another on the Magnetic North label - https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/331-Cristian-Vogel-Infra-ep Sub Version (Directional Force Mix)

BUNKERHEADZ
Integrated Circuits - Yip! - https://youtu.be/mVSugJBUBr8

under his real name, Roland Casper, the track Stuzzicadenti on https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/16472-Roland-Casper-Warehouse-EP

BUNKERHEADZ
Equinox (5) - Pulzar - https://youtu.be/63DWQ0Fvw80

also maybe, speaking of Mills - https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/75461-Equinox-Pulzar-The-Punisher-Remixes
and https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/648-The-Subjects-v-Jeff-Mills-Beyond-Dark-Matter

Scatter.Gun
Wtf, that sounds never seen label is insane, this stuff is definitely ‘before it’s time’
I mean this stuff makes zekt - experiment….look not experimental.

If there is a case of "hitting the nail on the head", it is the name of this label - as I really have never seen sounds like this again...
But, if you like the general direction of the label, I have some further suggestions:

Taciturne - Phenprocoumon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrfN0MoYJuQ
Somatic Responses - Quonk Low https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAmxbqA3g6I
Nasty Django - Just Anotha Asskick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_PmqJx5yOo
Somatic Responses - The Stalker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIPvPkGJTmM
Senical - Salza in the Middle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M110vd8gRUM
Frozen - Out of the light https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIt080wmGmo
Somatic Responses - The Storm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiTHFT9FvCY
Vdd Energise - Don't Open The Arc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5KWedeRdeI
Somatic Responses - The World Unseen pt. 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krdw1HQC1K4
The Joker - Houla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArDwe9pxGY
Senical - Blized https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbfF5yZL3JM

(these are not necessarily the timeframe or style you requested in the original post, mind you, but are imho interesting for SNS - fans :-)

Scatter.Gun
1993 though…. Wtf

Generally, the 90s were *much* more experimental than the later decades. Or rather, the idea of experimentation in electronic music somehow died after the turn of the millennium...

If there is one artist that I feel like is most consistently like Eruption on Thera, it has to be Imminent Starvation aka Imminent in later years.
I don't know if he was directly influenced, but his kind of noisy, broken rhythms often combined with sort of "metallic" sounds reminds me a lot of Eruption.
from 1997's Lost Highway 72 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLGh7Ef2pck
to this year's Mythrality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNlX7Vb2dHs
I feel like his music most carries the DNA of Eruption.

His project Delta Files project on the Reload sublabels was sort of similar, but not as good in my opinion: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/artist/55608-Delta-Files

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/331-Cristian-Vogel-Infra-ep Sub Version (Directional Force Mix)

out of all the ones I knew I'd forgotten in my post, this is the most obvious. and definitely one that got played by someone on 45 too. good shout on that Roland Casper EP as well.

this isn't exactly a perfect fit for this topic, but I was reminded of it recently: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/182087-Crypt-Corp-Crypt-Corp-4 - probably one of the heaviest Fax releases, and the ambient track is pretty spooky business too.

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/331-Cristian-Vogel-Infra-ep Sub Version (Directional Force Mix)

out of all the ones I knew I'd forgotten in my post, this is the most obvious. and definitely one that got played by someone on 45 too.

On this great mix that also has a couple of other tracks you mentioned earlier: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/310257-Laurent-H%C3%B4-Hardcore-III

Scatter.Gun
I’m gonna stick my neck out and say something that’s perhaps a little embarrassing, back when I was younger I would not of been able to ‘understand’ this level of experimentation back when these records came out.

I’m gonna be double embarrassed, there once was a time many years ago, that I couldn’t understand’ or ‘get’ the Dj freak kind of stuff, there was once a a time I referred to that kind of stuff as noise.
Most of the freak stuff I wouldn’t of appreciated when it came out in the 90’s
I actually feel bad for it and wish I had of been less closed minded to sounds I didn’t understand.

I guess you're not alone with that. Coming into the scene through rave and happy hardcore I got headache from listening to Thunderdome V for the first time. :D Today I love that compilation... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzAgacFBr48

in fairness - a lot of Freak's stuff IS pretty much noise. that's kinda the point :D

I think it's a mistake to think of music in of "understanding" it though. that way of looking at it only really serves the purist who wants to prove their taste is more elevated, which is pretty silly. and it can make you feel like there's certain things you *should* like, because they have that certain status.

music's more than an intellectual exercise, at heart it's about what it makes you feel. even something like industrial hardcore is still about that visceral *feeling* of an aggressive distorted kick booting you in the stomach :)

it's just that some music is more of an acquired taste than others. sometimes the appeal takes a while to build, or something's just so different to what you're used to...so it takes a few times to unlock the feelings.

that's something that I learned from getting into the more extreme end of hardcore: for me, it was 2 albums that I got around the same time (maybe 99/00): the Technohead 4 compilation, and the "Speedcore" compilation mixed by Loftgroover. what they both taught me was not to dismiss music that didn't immediately appeal...and that giving stuff more chances, and not being so rigid with how you define your taste, ultimately truly broadens your taste, to the point that you end up really loving stuff you never thought you would.

As much as I learned that from listening to weird noisy experimental hardcore - it's just as true for music that's maybe more subtle, or just different to what you usually like. And so that's helped me get into all sort of music I once thought I hated, from jungle to progressive house...even makina.

But of course, at the same time, it has equally taught me that there are some other styles of music with a similar, less obvious appeal - that I will never like. Psytrance + dub techno being the 2 that come straight to mind :D

Even though the people who love them would similarly be inclined to say "you just don't*understand* it....but as I say, it's still about how it makes you feel at the end of the day, and so will still always be subjective.

I just listen to great oldschoolish Charlton live set on the STOOR youtube channel, which gives an overall feeling similar to the thera ep, coming from the use of the 909 in his set up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHgwm_kGSmQ

I would recommend Waveform Transmission Vol.1

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/5943-Jeff-Mills-Waveform-Transmission-Vol-1

There are a few very hard tracks on it that are quite similar to Thera EP.
I when this album got released in 1993 and Jeff Mills played the same year at the old airport in Munich all that stuff of the album live!!!
It was like thunder and lightning - one of the hardest live performances I have ever witnessed!
A very heavy stroboscope thunderstorm :-)

traffic_cone
in fairness - a lot of Freak's stuff IS pretty much noise. that's kinda the point :D

I think it's a mistake to think of music in of "understanding" it though. that way of looking at it only really serves the purist who wants to prove their taste is more elevated, which is pretty silly. and it can make you feel like there's certain things you *should* like, because they have that certain status.

music's more than an intellectual exercise, at heart it's about what it makes you feel. even something like industrial hardcore is still about that visceral *feeling* of an aggressive distorted kick booting you in the stomach :)

it's just that some music is more of an acquired taste than others. sometimes the appeal takes a while to build, or something's just so different to what you're used to...so it takes a few times to unlock the feelings.

that's something that I learned from getting into the more extreme end of hardcore: for me, it was 2 albums that I got around the same time (maybe 99/00): the Technohead 4 compilation, and the "Speedcore" compilation mixed by Loftgroover. what they both taught me was not to dismiss music that didn't immediately appeal...and that giving stuff more chances, and not being so rigid with how you define your taste, ultimately truly broadens your taste, to the point that you end up really loving stuff you never thought you would.

As much as I learned that from listening to weird noisy experimental hardcore - it's just as true for music that's maybe more subtle, or just different to what you usually like. And so that's helped me get into all sort of music I once thought I hated, from jungle to progressive house...even makina.

But of course, at the same time, it has equally taught me that there are some other styles of music with a similar, less obvious appeal - that I will never like. Psytrance + dub techno being the 2 that come straight to mind :D

Even though the people who love them would similarly be inclined to say "you just don't*understand* it....but as I say, it's still about how it makes you feel at the end of the day, and so will still always be subjective.

Well said - totally agree!

Adding another to the list.

Luke Slater - power plant

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/10290-Planetary-Assault-Systems-Planetary-Funk-Vol-2

This one I forgot to mention the previous time, hard as nails when it came out.

Dilemma (2) - Erase Your Mind - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXyk995HYOo

That's a really good track to be fair, what that must of sounded like to people in 1991.......

traffic_cone
almost forgot: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/16662-Trauma-Trauma - love this EP, but "Trauma" and "Shock" probably fit here.

not forgetting other Italian insanity:
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/150041-Various-We-Were-In-The-Future "Coldbringer", holy shit.

honestly, the stuff coming out of Rome on labels like ACV, Sounds Never Seen, Sysmo etc in the early 90s was just as interesting, experimental and mind-bending as P or Rephlex...

And for slightly later stuff, the label that's really worth going through is Re-load - not necessarily the same vibe, but definitely the place to go for the harder-edged techno.

Leo's friend Headcleaner (who worked out 2 ep's before he died through Network23 connections) was also a good Italian figure to name when talking Italian music. Even tho he isn't known that well...

This fits I'd say.

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/16817-Universal-Indicator-Universal-Indicator-Red

^ I'd say yellow more than red, but that's just me.

Definitely Obleak, good call.

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/35224-Universal-Indicator-Yellow

i did mention that one above :P

i think a lot of Mike Dred's releases are worth a look - they tend to maybe have 1 or 2 heavier tunes, with the others being lighter or more melodic.

traffic_cone
Psytrance + dub techno being the 2 that come straight to mind :D

I ed this comment when this thread got resurrected.
Anyway, regarding dub techno, check this mash I did with a harder "industrial" techno track.
A lot of interesting rhythms and syncopation in the two tracks (parts of the Basic Channel track make me thing it could even be considered polyrhythmic) even though it's still a straight kick drum holding it together.
Not really trying to convert you, but curious what you might think if dub techno was mixed with a a bit of a harder kick and some less subtle sounds to balance it out.
https://youtu.be/lrgvXDD7DRU

I don't hate it - has a nice sort of extra tribal rhythm to it. But to be honest I suspect everything I like is from the other track ;)

I can sort of understand how something with lots of layers of sound and ambiance could be really satisfying for the people who do like it, but to me it's just like audio wallpaper. I've never really been into drone or anything like that either.

And I think what makes it really clear is reading the rapturous reviews on some of those classic Basic Channel / Chain Reaction / Maurizio releases, all talking about these multi-layered, deep masterpieces that reveal new details on every listen.

Now some of this is just typical Discogs snob hyperbole of course - and I'm sure some of those reviewers would be quick to tell me it's because i'm an idiot who likes happy hardcore (guilty as charged) but that's why it's a good example of something that just fundamentally isn't for me (and I'm also old enough not to try and force myself into liking something that's "important" :D)

Maybe it's almost like a techno version of one of those Magic Eye posters where if you look at it hard enough, the people who love it suddenly see all these amazing new details - but I'm the person squinting at it saying "i don't see anything"

traffic_cone
I can sort of understand how something with lots of layers of sound and ambiance could be really satisfying for the people who do like it, but to me it's just like audio wallpaper.

well, i mean, you're not wrong because it sort of is audio wallpaper
some of their tracks don't even have kick drums so in those instances it's pretty much is just ambient music

traffic_cone
Maybe it's almost like a techno version of one of those Magic Eye posters where if you look at it hard enough, the people who love it suddenly see all these amazing new details

yeah, it's pretty much like ambient in that it's ignorable as it interesting

This is the only record in my collection that has dub techno genre on discogs.

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/4914-Psykofuk-Psykofuk

Can someone please educate me on what elements of one or both of the tracks on this record are dub techno please?

The track Walk on base on this goes very well with the Thera ep https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/194992-C-Tank-Subway-X-Walk-On-Base

keess65
The track Walk on base on this goes very well with the Thera ep https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/194992-C-Tank-Subway-X-Walk-On-Base

Lovely tune. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I love that crispy, deep, haunting bass kick.

John_Galbraith
keess65The track Walk on base on this goes very well with the Thera ep https://discogs.cinepelis.org/master/194992-C-Tank-Subway-X-Walk-On-Base

Lovely tune. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I love that crispy, deep, haunting bass kick.

Cheers!

I love all three of the Sons Of Aliens EPs. They're both quite different to the Dutch hardcore of the time. "Terra X" on the second one is awesome, would fit with harder techno too, very spacey (and one of the rare old tunes that actually sounds alright on 45). The 3rd one is a bit more typical, but still has "Wicked Games" which somehow turns General Levy into this weird stripped back, almost minimalist gabber (?). And "In Love With You" which samples N Joi but turns it into this weird melancholy hardcore (that also sounds a bit like the Bond theme?)

I do think it's interesting, because it shows that sometimes you get the most interesting releases from people trying something outside of their usual tastes.

Mind you, the same 2 guys also did another EP on Terror Traxx under the name "Scum", which is more typical gabber (and not as good, really).

The early Corsten work that is probably most apposite for this thread is this: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/147043-Zenithal-Sssshhhht-EP - definitely on the harder end of 92. His later techno releases as "Exiter" on X-Trax are in the same spirit - no acid, but lots of heavy drums and metallic clanking. Whereas some of his other techno isn't so much on the harder side.

Maybe the most surprising is this: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/297772-Skywalker-Seed-Macarony-Intentions - amongst all the trance, house and techno, he did one jungle/drum & bass EP. In 1996 - which is also quite early for any d&b not from the UK or . Not only that - but whilst 2 of the tracks are decent but fairly typical, the B1 "Macarony" also doesn't really sound like much else from that time. It has a breakbeat that I don't think I've heard anyone else use in that style, and the synths definitely have a trancey edge to them - but in a tasteful way. Maybe one of those tracks that's too melodic for the people wanting "deep" tunes - yet not rowdy enough for the jungle dancefloors. But I really like it. Weirdly reminds me a little of Tim Reaper's more jungle techno style.

It's also interesting to compare Ferry Corsten to that other Dutch trance artist who famously started in hardcore. Because in general Ferry's stuff is definitely a lot better -Tiesto's tunes are a lot more generic. And as someone who loves generic mid 90s gabber more than anything: there's a few I really love, but most are average or even straight up shit. Not entirely surprising, since he was just starting out, and it clearly wasn't his ion. But even then his catalogue has some surprises, away from the usual formula - like "Willow", from his first EP as Da Joker, which is a weird sort of funky techno / hard house fusion. Or "I Wanna Get High" by Tom Ace.

And his early collaborator Greg "Storm" produced one of *the* strongest Dutch hardcore EPs of the late 90s as G-Shock - most famous for the monster "Demons", that Promo later revived in the early 2000s, but "From the Darkness" and "I Am The Way" are also fantastic.

To be fair it's hard to think of that many Dutch producers of note that didn't at least dabble in hardcore in some form.

Vincent de Moor is close, because the one hardcore release he did make, "Het Vliegende Kunstgebit" as Gmoork - is a great tune, but on the softer side for sure. Although it makes up for it with a gruesome cover with a close up of horrific tooth decay :/

glitchtrauma
I seem to hearing some clubby hard house from Armin van buuren from 96 (it's not very good, imo...)

i quite like his early EP on Timeless. Has a little of the same spirit as the earlier bits by Eric Nouhan / Georgio Schulz, if not quite on that level (to be fair those dudes are the absolute pinnacle of house for me, alongside Rene & Gaston and Sven Van Hees)

sadly he did also do his own cover of Speedy J "Pull Over", which is...not so much bad as just pointless.

glitchtrauma
Doubt they though! this was too dry to be canonised.

yes, much as how we are all supposed to forget all the piano tunes played in 92, it's important that all histories of uk rave forget all the hoover techno from 91 as well.

Back to the topic, I'm not sure how I missed this one: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/90579-Teckno-Bross-Captains-Log - best known for the title track (which features one of Loftgroover's farts) but all 4 tracks fit this topic, and are great. Previous Techno Bros release is also cool, although not as heavy.

weirdly the first DJ I heard play "Captain's Log" is DJ SS, on his tape from Rez new years 93/94. plays Sulphurex "Point Break" on the same set too i think. from that short time when jungle DJs still got booked for hardcore raves in Scotland but knew people would throw shit at them if they played too many breakbeats :D

and it also led to the single greatest MC moment I've ever heard on any rave tape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAouybyRHU&t=2323s - timing is just so perfect :D

KAA (2) – Emphasis
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/217119-KAA-Emphasis

i mean it definitely isn't :D given there's no evidence to it other than some dude submitting it on Discogs and a bunch of hardcore nerds getting all excited.

put it this way: the closest equivalent i can think of is the few UK releases from 92 that are 170+ bpm, like the Capsule EP, or "Rough & Dangerous" by Syko & Mak. but in those cases, there are sets that feature those tracks (even if they are being pitched down!). The fact there aren't any examples for this track - that , would have sounded revolutionary at the time - says it all.

glitchtrauma
I concur. Also Mixrace - too bad for ya (is 180 too fast for ya)

something I realised recently: Delta 9 sampled that on the Hate Tank LP - as the intro for the fastest tune on the album too (and at 250 bpm, about as fast as you could get for early 95 outside maybe GTI).

it would be interesting if that was deliberate too, considering one of his other tunes has a looped sample of Rob Gee spitting on broakbeat :D

glitchtrauma
Although, I have a Richie Hawtin tape from the orbit purporting to be Nov 1992 which pushes well into the 160s at one point. That isn't so surprising for late '92

i think the very first Speed Freak EP on Mono Tone is the fastest from 92, kickdrum wise. with Gizmo's "Guestlist" close behind.

although it's still crazy to me how quickly the tempos increased in 93, to over 200 in a few cases!

i feel like i've heard a few jungle tunes like that, sound like they've been recorded with extra pitch or something. in some cases i suspect it might be them just following the tempo of whatever ragga sample they pinched.

Recently got into this: https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/247428-Goldseal-Me-A-Danger-Raise-Yourself - particularly love the A1...ragga jungle with piano, hoovers and even some acid! And the B2 almost sends up sounding like modern halftime, just because the ragga drums are louder than the jungle ones :)

glitchtrauma
honestly could do with a 909 kick running underneath it, and I rarely say that for jungle.

that reminds me of one of the most surprising hardcore rips of the 90s - yes, it's a Scottish hardcore version of "The Rain" by Photek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOXMJaiIA-M - always loved that well before I knew the sample source, it definitely stood out!

also if you listen carefully to the start of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ijkkXlpKPs - that's Speed Freak pitching up "Armoured D" by Dillinja to 230 odd bpm.

A very interesting thread.
Has The Hague been mentioned yet?

glitchtrauma
here we go:

Lloydie Crucial ft. General Levy - Mirror On The Wall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2QwEpI7MK8

honestly could do with a 909 kick running underneath it, and I never say that for jungle.

here ya go: https://youtu.be/loqPPXcIfZw