Brazilian Expressions on releases explained

Encouraged by non-Brazilian s and ed in some knowledge of the language and with a reasonable experience of 40 years as buyer and lover of (mostly) all forms of recorded music, I started here a thread about expressions and particularities present in Brazilian releases, printed on the covers and stamps .
This should be a cumulative discussion, in which I intend to list the expressions as they are normally presented and a brief explanation attempting to translate it and, where necessary, identify their origin, purpose, and meaning. The initial list, presented below, should be fed and increased whenever a new expression is questioned by you, non-Brazilian or Brazilian s interested in accurately catag your albums.

I ask that for guidance on the manufacturing companies that existed throughout the 20th century access my profile and for any questions enter into the discussion.

INDÚSTRIA BRASILEIRA: Obvious translation = Brazilian Industry / Made in Brazil. The expression "Indústria Brasileira" dates back to the 1920s and seems to have been mandatory in everything made in Brazil until the early 1990's when the doors to directly imported products opened for good.
In the case of records (shellac, vinyl and CD) the expression always appears where there is a foreign brand (sometimes in the sequence of), from Fred Figner's Odeon in 1922, Victor in the 30s, Polydor etc in the 1950's even CBS, Sony Music or Sonopress in the 90s. Rare are the cases of occurrence of "Indústria Brasileira" in releases with local labels/brands, perhaps it was even a legal requirement of territoriality.

Disco É Cultura: Expression of cultural propaganda intended to promote the consumption of records. Present in Brazilian records from late 60's until the advent of CDs in the 90's. The "Disco É Cultura" imprint became mandatory in all releases that benefited from the law of incentive to culture through tax exemption, initially approved in 1967 and later promulgated as a federal law by the Brazilian government on December 6, 1969

Produzido no / Produzido na: The most common translation to "Produzido" should be Made, in a physical meaning. Made by (por / pelo / pela), Made at (na / no), Made for (para), Made with (com) are the most used expressions. Some examples:
"Produzido e Distribuído pela..." means Manufactured and Distributed by...
"Produzido na Zona Franca de Manaus" means Made at the Manaus Industrial District.

But beware: the musical production of the recording sometimes uses the same verb, with the same - or a very similar -
preposition of the 1st example above, but with a slight difference: a record can not be produced by an entity or a company, so the producer must always be a person, with a name. A record can shows "Produzido e Distribuído pela PolyGram Discos Ltda", "Produzido por Liminha" and "Produzido para a ABC Records". Then PolyGram Discos Ltda = Manufactured By, ABC Records = Produced For (or Manufactured For) and Liminha = Producer.

Produtor Fonográfico: Record Company.

Produção Independente: A self-released album, made without the concourse of Labels / Record Companies.

Visite a Amazônia: Touristic slogan printed on the back inlay of CDs made at the "Zona Franca de Manaus" - Amazonas.

Zona Franca de Manaus: geographic site near Manaus, Amazonas. A industrial district created on early 70's for the installation of electronics companies, attracted by tax incentives. In 1999 the name changed to Polo Industrial de Manaus

CGC, C.G.C.: Acronym for Cadastro Geral de Contribuintes, is a registration code for all companies established in Brazil. Used since mid 60's, consists in a 8/9 digits number which are the main number of the company. From 1966 to 1969/70, most of this codes were presented in 8 digits or in 8 digits plus /X. The code with 8 digits plus "/XXX" were used between 1969/70 and 1975/6. Since 1976, the code appeared as 14/15-digit code (8 or 9 digits plus /XXXX-XX"). A 1980 Federal Law regulated the display of the code on labels and covers requiring it to be presented prominently. Many companies then started to present the code framed in a rectangle, in the rim text or isolated in the center of the labels. Not all companies did so in the same way, but the presentation of the code in the rectangle frame indicates that the edition is most likely after 1980.
The sequence after the slash were created to encode the activities of the companies. A company may carry as many variants on the second sequence as the roles of its production chain, but the main 8/9 digits never changes. As an example, for the CBS company, CGCs shown on releases were 33.131.376 as the main code, 33.131.376/002 (used until 1977), 33.131.376/0001-94 and 33.131.376/0008-60 between 1977 and 1983, showing the last two codes variants on the roles, as for manufacturing, recording and publishing, distribution, etc.
The CGC code was renamed in July, 1999 as
CNPJ or C.N.P.J.: Acronym for Cadastro Nacional de Pessoas Jurídicas, but all previously existent codes were kept. Both CGC and CNPJ are usually followed by "MF or M.F. which are acronyms for "Ministério da Fazenda", the Brazilian Ministry of Finance

SCDP-DPF was a number code given by the Serviço de Censura e Diversões Públicas do Departamento de Polícia Federal (Censorship and Public Entertainment Service of the Federal Police Department) to every producer of cultural goods or services, such as music recording and publishing, cinema, theater and others. It was created in the mid 1930s in the 1st government of Getúlio Vargas as "Departamento de Propaganda e Difusão Cultural (DPDC)", renamed "Departamento de Imprensa e Propaganda (DIP)" which evolved into "Serviço de Censura de Diversões Públicas (SCDP)" in 1945. The mention of the registration number by record companies and publishers takes place from the end of the 1960s, already during the military dictatorship installed in 1964. There was no uniformity in the acronym used, sometimes being only mentioned as "Censura" followed by the individual alphanumeric code of each record company, which consisted of a 3 digit number followed by the abbreviation of the Federative State of company's establishment "SD-DPF 123-AB". Often presented with acronym TD for Turmas de Censura de Diversões Públicas.

Compacto Simples: 7" single.

Compacto Duplo: 7" EP, 2 or more tracks at each side.

Batch IDs or Batch Identifiers were introduced to the Brazilian phonographic market in 2003, ed by a federal law, sanctioned by the President of the Republic on 12/19 and published in the Federal Official Gazette (DOU) at December 20, 2002 , having in Article 9 the wording "This Decree enters into force on April 22, 2003". The code was intended to meet an old demand from artists and record labels who realized that there was no control over the number of units produced by CD and DVDs manufacturers so that uned copies would be being distributed and sold without their knowledge and consent.
The code consists of two letters and up to seven digits in the AA0000000 pattern indicating the batch produced - with AA being the first print run and the subsequent AB, AC, AD to ZZ designated as reprints of that first batch - and the numbering indicating the number of copies of each batch produced. Thus a Batch ID BD0001000 will indicate that it is the 29th batch produced with 1,000 copies.
Different manufacturers can produce CDs and DVDs (and recently vinyl records) at the same time with different codes - so we can have a release with AA1000 made by "CompanyA" and a AA2500 made by "CompanyB" - and in many cases "take over" the production of an item from a batch where another company had stopped, so a batch AJ can be manufactured by "CompanyA" and the following AK is manufactured by "CompanyB".
Batch IDs were not designed to refer to Reissues or Represses, but it is commonly accepted that any edition except AA is a repress. These Format section tags on the Discogs® Submission Form must primarily meet the definitions in RSG §6.17.1 and RSG §6.17.2

GRA pattern 60.000.000 are recording s, a Brazilian predecessor of the international standard ISRC RSG §5.2.k. The coding was introduced in 1977 as a numbered pattern of 8 digits, prefixed by a "6" (6x.xxx.xxx). These codes are exclusive to the phonogram recording, and have no relation to authorial copyright registration. The codes do not change according to the media or late reissues. Once ed, whenever that recording appears, the number must be displayed and match that of the original recording.
They are obviously not part of the track titles, but can be credited to the BaOI section under the heading "Other", mentioning in the description to which track each number refers, something like "Other (BR Recording Code, Track 0): 60.000.000"
As a way of guiding the registration date of each recording, I bring the codes mentioned in the last recordings of each year, from 1977 to 2000: from 60.000.001 to 60.2xx.xxx (1977), 60.6xx.xxx (1978), 60.9xx.xxx (1979), 61.2xx.xxx (1980), 61.5xx.xxx (1981), 61.9xx.xxx (1982), 62.3xx.xxx (1983), 62.5xx.xxx (1984), 62.8xx.xxx (1985), 63.0xx.xxx (1986), 63.7xx.xxx (1987), 63.8xx.xxx (1988), 63.9xx.xxx (1989), 64.1xx.xxx (1990), 64.4xx.xxx (1991), 64.6xx .xxx (1992), 65.0xx.xxx (1993), 65.5xx.xxx (1994), 66.3xx.xxx (1995), 66.7xx.xxx (1996), [67.6xx.xxx] (1997), 68.2xx.xxx (1998), 69.7xx.xxx (1999), 70.6xx.xxx (2000)

**********************************************************************************************

Orchestral and popular musical instruments with odd BR names

Alaúde = Lute
Baixolão = Acoustic Bass Guitar
Bandolim = Mandolim, 8 or 10 steel string
Bateria = Drums
Bombardino = Euphonium
Carrilhão = Chimes / Bells
Caixa = Snare Drum
Cítara = Zither
Escaleta = Melodica, Harmonium
Espineta = Spinet
Fagote = Basson
Gaita = mouth Harmonica, but in some regional music it is a type of Accordion
Viola: Acoustic guitar, mostly with 10 steel strings.
Violão = Acoustic / Classic Guitar, nylon strings
Violão De 7 = Acoustic / Classic Guitar, seven nylon strings
Pífano = Fife
Pistão = Trumpet
Sanfona = Accordion
Realejo = Barrel Organ
Teclado(s) = Keyboards

*****************************************************************************************************************

Some credits for production / engineering / management, as they commonly appears on releases:

Some roles are easily identified with "Producer", such as Produtor/Produção or Diretor/Direção de Produção
Gerente De Produção and/or Coordenador/Coordenação de Produção it seems, in the Brazilian case, a higher hierarchical step, a kind of chief of the producers involved, something closer to management than to production itself. Consider using Coordinator [Production] or Coordinator [Coordenação De Produção] in these cases
Some are more borderline cases mixing management and (studio) production roles, such as Produtor/Produção Artística, Diretor/Direção Artística. Roles like these deserve special attention and a certain knowledge of the credited 'artist'. It is generally considered that, if a Producer is credited on the release, the "Artistic" should be classified as career manager, as A&R

As a matter of corporate protectionism, our technicians were almost never treated as Engineers. Many are treated as Assistentes or Técnicos linked to the "Recorded By", "Mixed By", "Edited By" functions. If there is a hierarchy in the release presentation between the role holder and the assistant, use Technician [Role]

Credit as a Lacquer Cut engineer on covers and credits for releases is not common, due to the record companies using different studios and pressing facilities. When they are credited, they usually appear as Corte or more rarely as Editor/Edição. Lacquer Cut By does not appear in BR releases before the 21st century.

Thank you lbamaral. Very useful & Bumping this for not get locked.

Found a role for a wind instrument Ted Heath E Sua Musica* - Ted Heath No Palladium De Londres not very common in my experience with brazilian releases.
Trumpet [Pistões] is it correct?

Pistão is how called the Piston or Trumpet, or other valved wind instruments.
The noun is the same as for the engine part with the same function. Rarely used on plural, mainly when presenting jazz or military combos: "Senhoras e senhores, nos pistões, Hugo e Leandro" = Ladies and gentleman, on Pistons, Hugo and Leandro ... It is not usual, but not incorrect as well. It fell into disuse since the 70s with more and more references to the instrument as "trumpete" = trumpet.

You should add a column to https://reference.discogslabs.com/wiki/discogscredits

mjb
You should add a column to https://reference.discogslabs.com/wiki/discogscredits

I have no clue on how to do it

Thanks for the reply. Bumping for keep thread alive. 2 Months!...
:-)

Tks H UriahCego. I would like to have more time to add Brazilian particularities here. There is still much to be done, and sometimes I feel like Don Quixote.

I would also like to know how to do what the mjb has suggested, but I don't and I'm afraid (scary) to mess with programming. Does anyone know how and can help me with this?

lbamaral
I would also like to know how to do what the mjb has suggested, but I don't and I'm afraid (scary) to mess with programming. Does anyone know how and can help me with this?

I'm sorry L, I have no clue... tryed to add a column in portuguese language but not Works for me. I'm interested in add some credit translations in spanish too. I will search for some documented help and try again later.

Nah! It seems currently the discogslab wiki is broken. Saying that because I read a forum post regarding edit styles description.

UriahCego
Nah! It seems currently the discogslab wiki is broken.

To be true, the source code on discogs appears to be a mess. The search function is rather poor in any directions. How to use the wiki remains a riddle for me, too.

I would like to read the information about the CGC codes a bit more structured and more clarification about the sequence of the versions, maybe with a linked List with examples. That could work rather good.

However, great and useful information here. Thanks a lot !!!

Thank you manus-von-alles, I'll try to make things about CGC / CNPJ clearer, as you asked. Some brief definitions are here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNPJ
Although implemented in 1964, they are only found on records after 1965/6. Initially they presented only the company's registration code, with 8 digits, some also used the identification of origin, in 1 digit after the slash.

Odeon: https://img.discogs.cinepelis.org/isBobhlohjqkgSqzuhTJNRVp8BU=/fit-in/600x643/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-11241570-1512565406-7452.jpeg.jpg
Philips: https://img.discogs.cinepelis.org/1nYSKL0vq3uudf0mI8qNPT2hk10=/fit-in/599x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-4406435-1425320426-8156.jpeg.jpg

Up to mid 1970s, in order to be able to accommodate a greater number of activity variants or origins, some companies used, after the slash, up to 3 digits.

CBS: https://img.discogs.cinepelis.org/Bai7KM4LdDr84vEE7U1Mrm4NkRk=/fit-in/600x595/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-7403626-1440773621-9486.jpeg.jpg

After 1976, the code starts to be presented with 4 digits after the slash, plus two digits of activity ID. This format was used until 1999, when the code was renamed to CNPJ or C.N.P.J.

Odeon: https://img.discogs.cinepelis.org/XPBKZAGKALF2A-lKXBIxzZVvyKY=/fit-in/485x487/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-9483759-1481383462-5465.jpeg.jpg
Philips: https://img.discogs.cinepelis.org/enGPg-RSk1gikw0JNEabIK3wZuU=/fit-in/600x601/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-647762-1518729819-8384.jpeg.jpg

lbamaral
Direção Artística: Producer. One of the many exaggerated or redundant expressions used to designate the producer's role. Also credited as Diretor de Produção, Produção Artística, among other names.

Some variations of "Direção Artística" to be found: Directed By, Creative Director, A&R and even Art Direction, but Producer seems to be the most relevant to use:
"In the music industry, a record producer has many roles, among them controlling the recording sessions, coaching and guiding the musicians, organizing and scheduling production budget and resources, and supervising the recording, mixing and mastering processes" (from Credits Lists).

But, as I get questions and complaints when I change to Producer - is it the absolutely best alternative, or do we have other alternatives, opinions, sources?

Pe-Pe
alternatives, opinions, sources?

Some Brazilian s tend to use the A&R credit for the Diretor Artístico, but I do not think this is always an appropriate choice because A&R is a management role, more executive than artistic / technical.
I understand their doubt and their tendency to use a role that distinguishes them hierarchically, especially in cases where various degrees of production are mentioned, such as Assistente de Produção, Co-Produção, Produção and Direção de Produção / Direção Artística. The same thinking applies to technical roles, since the use of the term "Engineer" here is restricted to those who have attended and completed a college course, differently from what is accepted almost everywhere. For me, all those in a recording studio who are not artists are engineers.

The credit is mostly for producer.

You can compare the Brazilian release edition with the original one.

On the original the credit goes for Producer or Produced By while on BR and/or other latin releases goes for Direção Artística or Diretor Artístico or Spanish equivalent.
I will search for some examples.

Not found Brazilian releases yet, but found an Argentine one.
The Cure - The Head On The Door

Hard to find something, but that example is interesting

Making a little research about Ricardo Moreira (2) profile, I found two websites explaining his activities that makes clear that brazilian credit "Gerente Artístico" actually refers to A&R.

https://br.linkedin.com/in/ricardo-moreira-70655520
http://www.riomusicmarket.com.br/2017/

The portuguese speakers friends here can take a look on that to .

lbamaral This topic deserves to be improved. Portuguese credits are confusing even to portuguese speakers, so, any improvement here will be very very usefull for everyone.

Montandon
"Gerente Artístico" actually refers to A&R

Thank you for your input. Yes, certainly "Gerente Artístico" refers to A&R, since A&R is a management role. Things becomes grey when neither "Gerente" or "Produtor" are mentioned, such as on "Diretor Artístico" credits. I often use "Producer [Diretor Artístico]", even on releases where there are a Diretor Artístico and a Produtor credited. IMO it is only a matter of hierarchy on studio, someone always must be the "Commandant-In-Chief". Brazilians - Latin Americans in general - loves hierarchy, our old "complexo de vira-latas" = mutt dog complex....

Updated the status of the entry "Disco É Cultura" pointing to a link to the text of the Federal Law that regulated tax exemptions to encourage record production.
I have not been able to locate - yet - what was the ordinance or instruction that defined that the slogan "Disco É Cultura" should be printed prominently on the covers of all records that benefited from this law. In any case, it is known that initially focused on the production of records by Brazilian artists, even in 1970 the law was also applied to the production of records by artists of any nationality.
Some examples of 1969 without / 1970 with
Phonogram Elis Regina 1969 / 1970
CBS Roberto Carlos 1969 / 1970
EMI Milton Nascimento 1969 / 1970
RCA Martinho Da Vila 1969 / 1970

About the codes with pattern "AA0000000" found printed or stamped on the covers and media of releases manufactured and distributed in Brazil since April 2003 - here on Discogs conventionally called "Batch ID" and credited in the BaOI section - here the links with legal provisions and resolutions

1st legal resolution on Decreto N.º 4.533 of December 19, 2002
>> http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/decreto/2002/D4533.htm#:~:text=DECRETO%20N%C2%BA%204.533%2C%20DE%2019%20DE%20DEZEMBRO%20DE%202002.&text=Regulamenta%20o%20art.,que%20lhe%20confere%20o%20art.

Updated in the line D of article 34, chapter III of Decreto N.º 9574, of November 22, 2018
>> http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/_Ato2015-2018/2018/Decreto/D9574.htm#art33

Here https://www.omelete.com.br/musica/entenda-a-lei-de-numeracao-dos-cds-e-dvds-que-ja-esta-em-vigor a link where "April 22, 2003" is mentioned as the date on which the Decree-Law comes into force.

About "Zona Franca de Manaus" official name change to "Polo Industrial de Manaus" in December 1998, please check "TÍTULO IV / Disposições Especiais / CAPÍTULO I / Da Divulgação do Pólo Industrial de Manaus / Art. 45: As empresas cujos produtos sejam incentivados pela SUFRAMA deverão inserir com destaque as expressões "PRODUZIDO NO PÓLO INDUSTRIAL DE MANAUS" e "CONHEÇA A AMAZÔNIA", juntamente com o desenho estilizado de uma garça em pleno vôo, em qualquer peça de propaganda, promoção de vendas e merchandising de seus produtos." on http://www.suframa.gov.br//legislacao/outros_inst_legais/legi_reso_200.pdf

*with thanks to Montandon who researched, found and provided the link.

I would like to try to take a doubt with you regarding Brazilian releases that the identifying the pressing and amount released in the matrix (ex: AA000100; AB000500; etc) how should we ? Create a new edition or report a variant on the existing release?
Sorry for English.

mspalhares
I would like to try to take a doubt with you regarding Brazilian releases that the identifying the pressing and amount released in the matrix (ex: AA000100; AB000500; etc) how should we ? Create a new edition or report a variant on the existing release?

Don´t worry about your English, and thank you for coming here and raise your question. We understand that each edition that presents a batch code + number of copies that is not yet ed should be treated as a unique release in accordance with RSG §1.4.1 "Discogs allows the entering of all versions of a release, such as white labels, reissues, different artwork, format variations, colored vinyl, different manufacturers etc."
Non-AA editions are generally treated as represses, although we do not know in all cases whether the edition prior to the one being submitted has exactly the same matrix.

Hi all,

What do you think of entering the "Coordenação de Produção" credit as Coordinator [Production] (as per this thread)?
An alternative would be "Producer [Coordenação de Produção]" if it was to follow under the production umbrella as mentioned in the first post, but I don't think this applies in this case since it seems to be more of a management role versus a production one.

niago
"Coordenação de Produção" credit as Coordinator [Production]

Thanks for the note and the link. I made some updates to the "Glossary" at the beginning of the thread, please check and, whenever you have any questions or suggestions, collaborate.

Supe to have a point for Brazil releases

Do you have a section about batch ID?

I added to BaoI Other (Batch ID): none

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/13369318-The-Hits-1/history?diff=7&page=1

Because another one has one
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/Prince-The-Hits-1/release/8192622

But now I have a compliment for the edit :-)
but a remark that the batch ID none is not needed due the year of release...

Keep? Remove?

Edit/ how do I recognize the actual year of release?

no.signal
Do you have a section about batch ID?

Thanks for your interest. Please check above

lbamaral
About the codes with pattern "AA0000000" found printed or stamped on the covers and media of releases manufactured and distributed in Brazil since April 2003 - here on Discogs conventionally called "Batch ID" and credited in the BaOI section -

The subject was discussed some time ago in the https://discogs.cinepelis.org/forum/thread/396654 , when at the suggestion of the Staff the code was validated as unique for each release receiving the name / designation of "Batch ID". But you are right, I will try to include in the initial "Definitions Board" of this thread a topic about the code.

As for the use of "none", the credit may be unnecessary in releases prior to 2003, but if there are any recent releases - official or not - manufactured and distributed by established companies *without* the code, I think it is important that "none" be then credited, with explanation in the Notes field.

no.signal
section about batch ID?

Main Board updated, thank you for the tip.

Great work, lbamaral. One thing about Violão de 7 Cordas is that it is a different instrument from violão (just like a 12-String Guitar is not a regular Guitar). It should have its own entry on instruments, just like Viola Caipira got its own.

rpmzine
Violão de 7 Cordas [...] should have its own entry

Noted and done. Thanks for the . BTW, my next step will be to insert in the instruments section a list of names given to instruments known all over the world - from symphonic to popular ones - that in Brazil were baptized or known by peculiar names difficult to understand by non-Brazilians, like Gaita (Harmonica) Escaleta (Melodica, Harmonium), Bombardino (Euphonium) and Pífano (Fife), only to mention a few of the wind instruments played by Hermeto Paschoal. Any help would be highly welcome...

hi are this numbers after each song in the tracklist somehing we (https://discogs.cinepelis.org/image/R-10437208-1497418089-9464.jpeg

On the occurrence of the 'framed' appearance of companies' CGC codes on record labels in the 1980s: after the enactment of Federal Law 6800, some manufacturers began to display the code also in the central area of the labels - in addition to the usual and mandatory mention codes in rim texts - framed in a rectangle without necessarily linking the code to the company name. The companies that fully adopted the new standard were the majors Discos CBS (from 1981 to 1987) and RCA Eletrônica (from 1981 on) and the Brazilian company Som / Copacabana (from 1982 to 1987). Among those that have not or rarely adopted are EMI-Odeon, Polygram, WEA Discos and GEL / Continental.
In any case, the appearance of these framed codes indicates with a good degree of certainty that these records / tapes were not manufactured / released before 1981.

no.signal
hi are this numbers after each song in the tracklist somehing we (don't?) need to enter?
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/image/R-10437208-1497418089-9464.jpeg

Hi, thanks for being here and for your question
Those are recording s, a Brazilian predecessor of the international standard ISRC. These codes are exclusive to the phonogram recording, and have no relation to copyright registration. The mandatory mention of these codes comes from the 70s*, and they are very useful for identifying the origin of a version of a musical work included in a compilation, for example. The codes do not change according to the media or late reissues, as can be seen in 1984's LP Purple Rain. Once ed, whenever that recording appears on a disc, the number must be displayed and match that of the original recording.
They are obviously not part of the track titles, but can be credited to the BaOI section under the heading "Other", mentioning in the description to which track each number refers.

*edit: initial research indicates that the code was introduced in 1977. Initial numbering pattern is a 8-numbers line, prefixed by a "60" >> 60.000.000
ex
Elcio Alvarez - Orquestra & Coral (gel continental).

lbamaral
thanks for being here

same to you :-)

The next feature on the main board of this Thread will be "The evolution of design / lay out in the most important Brazilian labels, ordered by the number of releases as listed on 12/2020"

The BR labels of the 1940-1995 period are listed / linked in alphabetical order on the public list https://discogs.cinepelis.org/lists/Brazilian-Labels-of-the-1940-1995-period/665382

Hi - I am very eager to learn from your expertise - even if we had a bad start yesterday . I have a question that troubles me a little.

I perceived that there are RGE Discos releases from 1971 that are listed as originals with similar, but not equal labels. One type of labels have Rua Ipiranga as company-address on it:

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/Vinicius-Marilia-Medalha-Toquinho-Como-Dizia-O-Poeta/master/434068

But there is another type that has Rua do Triunfo printed on the label:

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/Toquinho-Vinicius-Toquinho-E-Vinicius/master/541601

Can you please explain to me if there are really two different types of labels in 1971 with two different company addresses on them?

I would appreciate very much your return on this. I am still learning about Brazilian records, and I need some advice. Thank you

bossasundays
Can you please explain to me if there are really two different types of labels in 1971 with two different company addresses on them?

Thank you for participating here and bringing your question. I am sorry if I was rude in any comments in a release of yours, I take the blame that I have been in a bad mood recently, perhaps because of the seclusion forced by the pandemics. It's not always easy to be Brazilian

It is relatively common to find different addresses for the same company over its lifetime, and it is still possible to find different addresses on the same record due to branches in different cities or separate facilities for studios and producers from the executive offices.
Discos RGE/Fermata Ltda., moving to the address at Rua do Triunfo. It is possible that there are other examples showing this ambiguity, due to the transition period of corporate name and addresses.

These brown-orange "RCA Eletrônica Ltda. no longer uses the older stampers that left the groove rings since 1972. These stampers were put into disuse - in all Brazilian presses - around 1970-72.

Thank you a lot for this description. This makes totally sense. I assume you are from Saõ Paulo? I used to live there from 2007 to 2015, I in the neighborhood Alto da Boa Vista. Unfortunately I started to get interested in records only after my return to Berlin. I wish I could stroll around in order to find Bossa Jazz records in Saõ Paulo.

Difficult times, I wish you the best and stay healthy!!

Best, Claudio

bossasundays
I used to live there from 2007 to 2015

Hey, 7 years is a lot of time ... You must have learned a lot of Portuguese.
I am on the hand to help you with whatever you need, either with your Bossa Jazz submissions or for ordering records that you can only find here.
BTW, Alto da Boa Vista is not far from my home. I live in Bela Vista, close to Paulista Av., which you certainly visited / attended.

Ibamaral, I see that a new entry is necessary when there's even a small difference from the previous batch. If there is no difference at all from 'AA001000' to 'AJ001000', for example, why add another entry?
It's necessary to add a new entry to the database when they change the pressing plant for example but, I understand that the batch ID code, by itself, is not enough to suggest a new entry.

vhsodre
I understand that the batch ID code, by itself, is not enough to suggest a new entry.

Printing in the release a different code for the batch produced is in itself a sufficient reason to credit releases as unique according to RSG §1.4.1. Also, the batch identification system does not identify the manufacturer, so we can have an "AA" batch produced by ABC and an "AJ" batch produced by DEF. We can even have an "AA" from ABC and an "AA" from DEF, there is no ' the stick' rule between producing companies. Without being able to positively identify all of the predecessors - of an AJ, for example - we cannot certify whether or not there was an LCCN difference in the chain.
Thanks for the question, I hope I was clear in the answer!!!

Brazilian laws related to prior censorship of phonograms, theatrical and television shows and editorial publications from the second half of the 1960s:
Decreto Nº 61.123, de Agosto de 1967 https://www2.camara.leg.br/legin/fed/decret/1960-1969/decreto-61123-1-agosto-1967-402407-publicacaooriginal-1-pe.html "Regulamenta a Lei nº 4944, de 6 de abril de 1966, que dispõe sobre a proteção a artistas produtores de fonogramas e organismos de radiodifusão"

Lei federal 5.536 de Novembro de 1968 https://www2.camara.leg.br/legin/fed/lei/1960-1969/lei-5536-21-novembro-1968-357799-publicacaooriginal-1-pl.html "Dispõe sobre a censura de obras teatrais e cinematográficas, cria o Conselho Superior de Censura".

I still haven't been able to find any rule or legal determination that record companies should print the SCDP registration number on the records that go to market. What we have so far is that the Companhia Brasileira De Discos (Philips, Polydor, etc) was the first record company to have the registration number, 001/GB. IEM-Odeon has registration# 002/GB, CBS has 004/GB and so on.
I have yet to see the code mentioned on any discs before 1969. If anyone knows of an example, please bring the link here.

Hi, lbamaral!
What about D I P 1/ G. N./E. number, printed in some shellac Victor's labels?
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/7149937-Libertad-Lamarque-Quiero-Verte-Una-Vez-Mas-Riendo
Hugs and thanks!

vetromilla
What about D I P 1/ G. N./E. number, printed in some shellac Victor's labels?

Hi Eduardo, thanks for questioning
D.I.P. or DIP was the license/censorship code from the 2nd government of Getúlio Vargas on early 1940s. As stated before in the OP of this thread, the "Government Censorship Organ" was created year before the military dictatorship of the 60s, which only updated and institutionalized something that had existed for over 30 years.

Hello lbamaral, thank you very much for your great guidance.
Following this thread (in my 'Saved') I have started to update database with my small made-in-Brazil collections from Lúcio Alves - Aloysio De Oliveira Apresenta O Cantor De Todas As Bossas including CGC/CNPJ. Any suggestion or comment is appreciated.

firebelli
Any suggestion or comment is appreciated.

Thank you for your words and encouragement
I meant to send you a private message but couldn't, so I left a comment in the release about the updates you made and some pre-existing needed fixes. I hope I have been clear, please forgive any linguistic misunderstandings (here and there)...

Hi lbamaral thank you very much for your agile . Your comments are reflected to the release.

Hello Nana* - Nana, I also recognized the following codes are listed by track on leaflet.
BRMCA6700177
BRMCA6700178
BRMCA6700179
BRMCA6700180
BRMCA6700181
BRMCA6700182
BRMCA6700183
BRMCA6700184
BRMCA6700185
BRMCA6700186
I could not figure out these codes so did not included these in the submission. Any idea? Thank you in advance.

firebelli
I could not figure out these codes

These are ISRC codes RSG §5.2.k: BR (country acronym) MCA (label acronym) 67 (year of original ) 00186 (track number)

Thank you lbamaral, your is reflected to BaOI.

lbamaral
INDÚSTRIA BRASILEIRA: Obvious translation = Brazilian Industry / Made in Brazil

Updated

lbamaral
The CGC code was renamed in July, 1999 as CNPJ or C.N.P.J.

Technically, the CNPJ was created in 1998 by the Instrução Normativa 27, from 5-Mar-1998, but the existing CGCs remained valid and in use until June 30, 1999
Sources https://www.significados.com.br/cgc/
INSTRUÇÃO NORMATIVA SRF Nº 82, DE 30 DE JUNHO DE 1999

lbamaral
As a way of guiding the registration date of each recording, I bring the codes mentioned in the last recordings of each year, from 1977 to 2000:

How certain is that time frame, e.g. 63.3xx.xxx (1987) and 63.7xx.xxx (1988). So shouldn't 63.79xx.xxx be later than 1988?
See New Order - Power, Corruption & Lies (and more releases in the Sub Notes)...

sebfact
How certain is that time frame, e.g. 63.3xx.xxx (1987) and 63.7xx.xxx (1988). So shouldn't 63.79xx.xxx be later than 1988?

Not quite certain, that's for sure. It's a rough guide, made long time ago which I need to review.
The dating by year was done taking as examples the albums known to be released in December of each year, but as the code refers to recordings s which may have been made in, say, August, there may be errors pushing for the next year some of the prefixes. Or errors due to using releases incorrectly dated in the database as year references. Or simple errors of attention on my part.
I've had my copy of PCL since the 80s, but I can't say if I bought it in 1987 or 88, but certainly not 1989. In that year the matrices were all identified as BMG, with RCA only appearing in represses. In short, I think the release year is correct, the GRA codes in it are correct, and my list is wrong. Probably 1987 should go up to 63.8xx.xxx

(many of the expressions and codes frequently found in releases made in Brazil have some official origin - established by federal laws - such as CGC-CNPJ, censorship codes, slogans and even anti-piracy protection codes, but for these GRA Codes I have never found a legal origin. All we have are empirical data: the numbering was sequential, not before 1977 and not after 2001 when ISRC codes were introduced)

I don't have documentation, but I think this list with the probable years by prefix started in 2018-19 and back then very few s used BaOI to credit the codes.
Now in 2023 it has improved a lot, with at least 15-30 returns per 3-digit prefix.

lbamaral
It's a rough guide, made long time ago which I need to review.

>>> Sep-18, 2013 reviewed from 1977-1990.

While at it: is it possible to clarify, why BZ releases often have three numbers, e.g.
670.4041 (the obvious main cat# from BMG / Ariola, found on the front/back cover and spine, the inner sleeve, labels)
000122 (usually found on the spine and back cover)
759925308-1/4 (usually found on the back cover only)?

Are these three really cat. nos.?

From 1984 onwards, RCA Eletrônica Ltda became exclusively commissioned to manufacture records and cassettes for the WEA labels in Brazil (before that WEA commissioned Gravações Elétricas SA, then INA Nacional Discos Ltda and EMI-Odeon Fonográfica Ltda (this one from 1981 to 1983). All releases manufactured by RCA for other companies received their own 7-digit catalog number, displayed on the front cover, spines and center labels. The 5 or 6-digit number on the back cover and spines is the WEA cat#. From 1986 onwards, with the acquisition of RCA by Ariola/BMG, a 3rd cat# was introduced which only appeared on the back cover, with 10-11 digits. This number only decreased in ~1993, when barcodes appeared on almost everything that is put on the market.
>> on this 1986's The Doors - The Best Of The Doors the 10-digit appears on bottom left corner of back cover (I believe it was one of the first to introduce the number)
>> on this 1992's Ministry - The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste the code is already a 11-digit code bottom left corner of back cover (I don't have any Warner Music Brasil/BMG Ariola Discos LP from 1993 in my collection, but I think this may have been one of the last ones to use the code)

sebfact
Are these three really cat. nos.?

I consider them all as catalog numbers according to RSG §4.7.3, as they are all sequential and not related to other LCCN or BaOI roles such as distribution codes, price codes, etc.

Olá - I know only a few words of Portuguese, but I know that "e" means "and", so I ask about this artist: Ana Lucia Carvalho E Silva Faria.
Its uses are:
Pau Brasil - Lá Vem A Tribo: ANV "A.L. Carvalho"
The rest are ANVed "Ana Lucia Carvalho" or "Ana Lúcia Carvalho"

"And" would never appear in English names, but since I'm unfamiliar with Portuguese and Brasil name conventions, I'd like confirmation that "E" can appear in surnames. Or is it possible this actually refers to two people who worked together and perhaps became married, Ana Lucia Carvalho and Silva Faria ?

Obrigado, and apologies if this is a completely foolish question :^)

IronyChef
I'd like confirmation that "E" can appear in surnames. Or is it possible this actually refers to two people who worked together and perhaps became married, Ana Lucia Carvalho and Silva Faria ?

It's not a foolish question at all. In fact, both alternatives are possible and valid, since there are several combined surnames linked by "E", the majority of Portuguese descent such as Melo E Castro, Souza E Silva, etc. and it could also be that there are two artists or a duo/partnership of composers. I'll research more and get back to the topic when I have an answer. Thank you for participating here

lbamaral, if I may make a suggestion – as you are compiling here all Brazil-specific and quirks wouldn't it be useful to add a few words about the problem related to price codes which can hide behind the used word serie?
It may prevent more false series be created without checking first here the validity.

There was a thread lately with you involved and fake series but I can't find it right now but as related thread I can offer https://discogs.cinepelis.org/forum/thread/721735 at least. Cheers

typoman2
This thread is more focused on answering questions from non-Brazilians regarding expressions and codes that appear in releases made in Brazil. Unfortunately, 90% of these non-series are actually created by Brazilian s who either do not know the guidelines or prefer to act in disregard of them.
If I can do the same thing with the Brazilian "Série LabelName" that we managed to do with the "Série PiceCode" 4 years ago, it will be a good precedent to apply to the French and Argentine equivalents. And it will also deserve an entry on my list of "Brazilian Expressions".
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/forum/thread/1035496 is the thread you're looking for
Cheers

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/forum/thread/1035496 is the thread you're looking for

Unbelievable the Search didn't bring this up! Thank you
For the rest … was just a thought popping up in my brain when seeing this extremely useful thread again.
And not aware of the fact that most of these fake series were generated by Brazilian s.
You do whatever you see fit – it's your thread after all.

IronyChef
Ana Lucia Carvalho E Silva Faria.

Is definitely her complete name. "Carvalho E Silva" should be considered as a single compound surname as the examples above
It could be that Carvalho E Silva is the "middle-name" of her maternal family and Faria is the surname of her father's family
or
Carvalho E Silva is her maiden surname and Faria is her husband's family surname (a very Brazilian custom)

typoman2
And not aware of the fact that most of these fake series were generated by Brazilian s.
You do whatever you see fit – it's your thread after all.

I try to be helpful, this has always been the purpose since 2017. My biggest problem is the so-called "friendly fire", it seems that I have more with non-Brazilians than with my compatriots. Let's see what the result of the thread in question will be, which will certainly impact the French and Argentine LabelName Series.

lbamaral
Ana Lucia Carvalho E Silva Faria.
Is definitely her complete name. "Carvalho E Silva" should be considered as a single compound surname as the examples above
It could be that Carvalho E Silva is the "middle-name" of her maternal family and Faria is the surname of her father's family
or
Carvalho E Silva is her maiden surname and Faria is her husband's family surname (a very Brazilian custom)

Ok - thanks for the quick response, I've learned a little something - and thank you also for your informative ongoing top post, which I've referenced for other releases.

Bump / post to avoid automatic closing

Bumping, to prevent locking

Hello again - how do you suggest "Sob encomenda de <empresa>" ("Commissioned/Ordered by <company>") be entered in LCCN? (The credit role "Commissioned By" would be inappropriate because it is typically used when a patron requests a specific new artwork.)
Existing entries vary greatly: Manufactured For, Licensed From (seems wrong), Distributed By, Record Company (safest ?)... Thank you!

IMO, "Manufactured for" is more close in this case.

IronyChef
how do you suggest "Sob encomenda de <empresa>" ("Commissioned/Ordered by <company>") be entered in LCCN?

" sob encomenda de " indicates that the record company or distributor placed the manufacturing order with a third party. The expression was little used until the 90s but became common from the middle of the decade onwards, when most CDs and DVDs manufacturers had no ties to the record company.

The correct role for the expression in the LCCN section is " Manufactured For ".

vetromilla
IMO, "Manufactured for" is more close in this case.

This, thanks