Undiscussed (?) WaxTime mass edit

Nowadays almost everything apart from the local is on a level that transcends the national. And we're still stuck with the inadequate and contradictory country guidelines.

Does WaxTime count as a "small label" - if we even have a definition of that...?

But yeah, this looks more like Europe to me. In fact there's quite a few labels in the DB that have all (or most) of their releases tagged as being intended for the same market as the country where the label is from, e.g. Clean Feed. While in fact these distribute all over Europe and even the world. Not only that, it has even changed over time... Small labels grow, after all. So who knows.

But given that this was an undiscussed mass edit, it should better be reverted anyway.

mr_mando
jooprm has changed the country on almost 100 WaxTime releases from Europe to Spain in the last few hours.

Did you ask him for the reason? This would be the first step b4 starting a thread IMO.
BTW he obviously is an experienced with a very high voting average.
Nevertheless I also see the records as European releases - released by a Spanish label.

Quael
Did you ask him for the reason?

https://discogs.cinepelis.org/release/7046652-Behind-Brigitte-Bardot-Cool-Sounds-From-Her-Hot-Scenes/history#latest

That release (Behind Brigitte Bardot) is only 5 years old and has mostly just sellers of new, sealed copies, all at about the same price, in the USA, , UK, , Italy, Denmark... This seems like the typical contemporary label situation where they have the rights for worldwide distribution. Definitely not a Spain-only release. Doesn't even look like you could say Spain is the principal market.

Thanks for the link.
Really weak arguments from jooprm.

mjb
This seems like the typical contemporary label situation where they have the rights for worldwide distribution.

+1

I agree with rdvriese when he says "we're still stuck with the inadequate and contradictory country guidelines ..."
If you notice there are many other examples that IMHO can be considered wrong or ambiguous.
For example: Blue Note Tone Poet Series produces and presses in the USA; and is classified as US in the "country" field. Yet it presses, distributes and sells all over the world. So why doesn't it have the empty field as to indicate worldwide?
Another example: Speakers Corner Records.
[L75430] produces and presses for the whole world. Yet it is classified in the "country" field as Europe and not worldwide. Rather, at least half of its editions are classified as : not even Europe.
As mr_mando rightly says this is a now globalized world where every country and every press are sold and distributed everywhere. And I am not surprised if these editions speak in English. It is obvious in most cases that they are written in English.
But if everything is distributed everywhere, then the country field must remain empty because it implies a global distribution?
If anyone can answer this question comprehensively and logically ...

jooprm
But if everything is distributed everywhere, then the country field must remain empty because it implies a global distribution?

And that's why you chose to edit from "Europe" to "Spain". Come on!

mr_mando
But if everything is distributed everywhere, then the country field must remain empty because it implies a global distribution?

No, in fact. So why should it be relegated to Europe alone? If it is as you say, the country must be eliminated. Again, how do you explain the US country for Blue Note Tone Poet Series? [L1593136] is everywhere. I buy it in US, , Italy, Spain, Japan ... and so on. So why is US and not worldwide?

jooprm
If it is as you say, the country must be eliminated.

I didn't say that, it's a quote from your post that you're misrepresenting.

Look:
Wayne Shorter - Speak No Evil. Same series.
Yet more than a few s (even among the most experts present and named here ...), myself included, have expressed a univocal thought on the classification of the country: worldwide. The other release even says EU & US; as if in Argentina they couldn't have it ... So: where is the truth? The uniqueness? The rule? The certainty?

jooprm
how do you explain the US country for Blue Note Tone Poet Series? [L1593136] is everywhere. I buy it in US, , Italy, Spain, Japan ... and so on. So why is US and not worldwide?

I think here you've got a point.
Discogs is not clear for these cases. In the future most releases will need 'Worldwide' as country. Open country field is not a good
solution IMO.

mr_mando
jooprmIf it is as you say, the country must be eliminated.

I didn't say that, it's a quote from your post that you're misrepresenting.

are you kidding me? :)

Quael
think here you've got a point.
Discogs is not clear for these cases. In the future most releases will need 'Worldwide' as country. Open country field is not a good
solution IMO.

Quael
jooprmhow do you explain the US country for Blue Note Tone Poet Series? [L1593136] is everywhere. I buy it in US, , Italy, Spain, Japan ... and so on. So why is US and not worldwide?
I think here you've got a point.
Discogs is not clear for these cases. In the future most releases will need 'Worldwide' as country. Open country field is not a good
solution IMO.

I greatly appreciate your point of view. Thank you

Even because, most of the WaxTime pressings in the database were already classified as Spain. Like the others with the gold sticker. It is the same manufacturer

jooprm
I greatly appreciate your point of view.

Nevertheless your mass edit was not correct IMO as such changes should be decided generally first. Discussion in a thread would have been very useful.
So we have it here now...

Uniqueness is required otherwise it becomes a big mess. Once I had to justified myself with a with very high ratings (I don't which one) because I had changed a SpeakersCorner vinyl from to Europe. Another time the opposite happened. I had to change from Europe to . But how then do you tell if one or the other is right? SpeakersCorner sells all over the world. It is one of the most widely distributed labels in the US by AcousticSounds. So?

I can see no justifiable reason why the country has been changed to Spain.

Across Europe the majority of vinyl stores stock Wax Time releases. In Asia, I can’t finding wax time releases in any of the stores I have visited. In the US , yes I have come across Wax time releases, but often marked as imports, or in imports section.

Yes I know this is my perspective but I would Europe as the main distribution for wax time.

Quael
Discussion in a thread would have been very useful.
So we have it here now...

Probably, but of course with the current guidelines being what they are, debating this topic ad nauseam is quite useless. How often do we see a thread on the country topic pop up with the same arguments and the same observations about how silly these particular guidelines are?

We all know the guidelines on this are utterly flawed, yet we all go along with it. And the only people who can fix it, are too busy providing us with tiny pictures of the artists on MR pages.

rdvriese
Nowadays almost everything apart from the local is on a level that transcends the national. And we're still stuck with the inadequate and contradictory country guidelines.

Agree in full!

jooprm
So: where is the truth? The uniqueness? The rule? The certainty?

The only truth are the guidelines.
Your attempt to evidentiate one of the many unclear database rules is creditable but I suggest you to revert your updates.
I'm unfortunately experienced in these kind of situations.

Nevertheless your mass edit was not correct IMO as such changes should be decided generally first. Discussion in a thread would have been very useful.
So we have it here now...[/quote]

Thank you. Maybe I should have opened a forum beforehand. But seeing most of the classified editions and seeing between my editions the typical post card with Spain and Barcelona like Fantasy Inc. or Analogue Productions or Acoustic Sounds I thought it was the right thing

jooprm
Once I had to justified myself with a with very high ratings (I don't which one) because I had changed a SpeakersCorner vinyl from to Europe.

What was the argument to leave the country ''?

rdvriese
Probably, but of course with the current guidelines being what they are, debating this topic ad nauseam is quite useless. How often do we see a thread on the country topic pop up with the same arguments and the same observations about how silly these particular guidelines are?

We all know the guidelines on this are utterly flawed, yet we all go along with it. And the only people who can fix it, are too busy providing us with tiny pictures of the artists on MR pages.

agree :)

Quael
What was the argument to leave the country ''?

Because SpeakersCorner Records is from , Because It presses in Pallas in . Or perhaps a silly parochialism...? :)

rdvriese
We all know the guidelines on this are utterly flawed, yet we all go along with it.

This really does not sound good and is not satisfying. There still is much to do.

Same.Old.Me
The only truth are the guidelines.
Your attempt to evidentiate one of the many unclear database rules is creditable but I suggest you to revert your updates.
I'm unfortunately experienced in these kind of situations.

You right dear Same.Old.Me . But if I must follow the guidelines, it's classified as worldwide: nor Spain or Europe. And we're back to square one

jooprm
But if I must follow the guidelines, it's classified as worldwide: nor Spain or Europe.

+1

rdvriese
inadequate and contradictory country guidelines.

+1 I'm afraid. I just ignore 'country' nowadays as it's meaningless and not actual data, more of a 'style' thing i.e. not worth fretting over.

-1 to any sort of mass edit bulldozing btw.

jooprm
are you kidding me?

What's your point in "quoting" s with quotes they never posted in the first place? Just to show us what?

Quael
This really does not sound good and is not satisfying.

Of course I agree. When I say "we all go along with it", I actually mean that we shouldn't. It's high time these issues get resolved at the level that is responsible for that. Otherwise we can keep on opening threads like this one.

At this point I've even stopped blaming s for making (certain) incorrect updates when even the people who wrote the guidelines apparently can't see how the sentences "Country refers to the country of origin" and "The country is NOT where the release was manufactured" are simply at odds.

Of course, I am still against the mass-editing of the country field without prior discussion, but that's because of other reasons.

rdvriese
We all know the guidelines on this are utterly flawed

And that's why we start undiscussed mass edits?

Quael
jooprmBut if I must follow the guidelines, it's classified as worldwide: nor Spain or Europe.
+1

If this decision goes through, we should change all editions of the entire database starting for example: MFSL, Inc. and so on ..

jooprm
I thought it was the right thing

But then maybe it wasn't.

mr_mando
jooprmI thought it was the right thing

But then maybe it wasn't.

Any decision you make will be fine. Just don't crucify me. Then I get discouraged :) I'm here like everyone else to help order the database which is often a big mess

jooprm
it's classified as worldwide

What's the source for worldwide? Did you read steve.fletcher's post or did you decide to ignore it because it doesn't your point of view?

rdvriese
Otherwise we can keep on opening threads like this one.

The main reason this thread was opened was for ignoring the mass edit protocol.

steve.fletcher
I can see no justifiable reason why the country has been changed to Spain.

Across Europe the majority of vinyl stores stock Wax Time releases. In Asia, I can’t finding wax time releases in any of the stores I have visited. In the US , yes I have come across Wax time releases, but often marked as imports, or in imports section.

Yes I know this is my perspective but I would Europe as the main distribution for wax time.

So, you agree with Quael?

mr_mando
rdvrieseOtherwise we can keep on opening threads like this one.

The main reason this thread was opened was for ignoring the mass edit protocol.

I repeat. If I follow the protocol, than editions are worldwide

mr_mando
The main reason this thread was opened was for ignoring the mass edit protocol.

I know, and rightly say so. I've also done so, even if I agree with the spirit of the edit.

But in the end, what does it resolve if we can't discuss the actual matter at hand fundamentally because the guidelines are so flawed? (Except raise awareness about the mass edit protocol of course.)

Same.Old.Me
but I suggest you to revert your updates.

I would suggest too, otherwise someone will start to vote EI soner or later

mr_mando
jooprmit's classified as worldwide

What's the source for worldwide? Did you read steve.fletcher's post or did you decide to ignore it because it doesn't your point of view?

Yes, and WaxTime is distribuited all over. I don't know if Bermuda or Fiji have it. Bat that's it

Indeed, we have brought up the "of origin" error before, but I think management considers these guidelines to be Pandora's Box, better left alone. And they shot down the possibility of adding a 'Worldwide'. I forget why...I think it was because leaving the field blank is supposed to be the standard for worldwide, unknown/uncertain, or some combination not in the drop-down... but shyeah right. Try leaving the field blank and see how long other s tolerate that.

What Nik did say, though, was that the country field is more for disambiguation than for precision. That's why Europe is fine even when it's really only parts of Europe, or mainly Europe but maybe also elsewhere. The release notes are always an option for further explanations, too.

mr_mando
venetian-guybut I suggest you to revert your updates.

I would suggest too, otherwise someone will start to vote EI soner or later

So, @'s vote it doesn't matter. Guys, sure that if the decisions in the forums continue to be one-way it is useless to talk about them and raise fuss. I'm going to revert the subs. Ciao and thank you

mjb
Indeed, we have brought up the "of origin" error before, but I think management considers these guidelines to be Pandora's Box, better left alone. And they shot down the possibility of adding a 'Worldwide'. I forget why...I think it was because leaving the field blank is supposed to be OK for worldwide, unknown/uncertain, or some combination not in the drop-down... but shyeah right. Try leaving the field blank and see how long other s tolerate that.

What Nik did say, though, was that the country field is more for disambiguation than for precision. That's why Europe is fine even when it's really only parts of Europe, or mainly Europe bu

ok

Spanish label according to profile, but freely available across Europe.
I wouldn't say they were a small label, they well over 500 releases plus several sub labels.
For me. the country is Europe.

mr_mando
venetian-guybut I suggest you to revert your updates.

I would suggest too, otherwise someone will start to vote EI soner or later

So, Quael vote it doesn't matter. Guys, sure that if the decisions in the forums continue to be one-way it is useless to talk about them and raise fuss. I'm going to revert the subs. Ciao and thank you

andygrayrecords
Spanish label according to profile, but freely available across Europe.
I wouldn't say they were a small label, they well over 500 releases plus several sub labels.
For me. the country is Europe.

So, all the other labels mentioned in this forum are onlu US, ... Ok, but when a decision is made it must be consistent for everything and everyone and not just when needed. Again, does Tone Poet disatribute only one US? Think about it a little while I change the WaxTime subs

Same.Old.Me
I suggest you to revert your updates

jooprm, Only to let you know that my suggestion was far from to be intimidating.

Ciao!

Your argument that because one label is listed as x country this is justification for making others the same is flawed.
We take each label case by case and do not make changes just to make things consistent.

Same.Old.Me
venetian-guyI suggest you to revert your updates

jooprm, Only to let you know that my suggestion was far from to be intimidating.

Ciao!

never doubted. And never even doubted everyone present here. We always speak cordially despite different points of view. We are "worldwide" not Spain, , US or Italy. Hi everyone :)

I think it would be helpful if everyone could stop editing the releases while this thread is active.

mr_mando
jooprm has changed the country on almost 100 WaxTime releases from Europe to Spain in the last few hours

The mass edit without discussion was obviously improper.

Is there any location info actually printed on these releases? Specifically, can anyone make out the text to the left of the barcode on the back covers? There seems to be some kind of cat#, the ℗ © ####, but I can’t make out what’s underneath..

steve.fletcher
Your argument that because one label is listed as x country this is justification for making others the same is flawed.
We take each label case by case and do not make changes just to make things consistent.

I know what you mean and I know the rule too. But if you take a tour of the subs of the labels listed above (just for example but there are many others), then try to fix them and see if someone with 200,000 points doesn't contradict you. This is not a criticism of you. But just an observation of how things often go

berothbr
The mass edit without discussion was obviously improper.

Is there any location info actually printed on these releases? Specifically, can anyone make out the text to the left of the barcode on the back covers? There seems to be some kind of cat#, the ℗ © ####, but I can’t make out what’s underneath..

An example among those I have. Look at the pictures Chet Baker, Bill Evans - Alone Together (last two pics)

jooprm
If this decision goes through, we should change all editions of the entire database starting for example: Blue Note Tone Poet Series, WaxTime, Analogue Productions, Speakers Corner Records, MFSL, Inc. and so on ..

This is a fair point. For example, modern Blue Note Records releases are widely available worldwide, but for most the country is still just US because it’s a US label. At first glance, it doesn’t really make sense that we’re handling Waxtime differently.

berothbr
jooprmIf this decision goes through, we should change all editions of the entire database starting for example: Blue Note Tone Poet Series, WaxTime, Analogue Productions, Speakers Corner Records, MFSL, Inc. and so on ..This is a fair point. For example, modern Blue Note Records releases are widely available worldwide, but for most the country is still just US because it’s a US label. At first glance, it doesn’t really make sense that we’re handling Waxtime differently.

Thank you.
While others think about it, I'm changing today's subs ...

.

jooprm
An example among those I have. Look at the pictures Chet Baker, Bill Evans - Alone Together (last two pics)

Nobody is saying the label isn’t a Spanish based company. Discogs uses distribution and marketplace at the country of the release not the country of the label

jooprm
I know what you mean and I know the rule too. But if you take a tour of the subs of the labels listed above (just for example but there are many others), then try to fix them and see if someone with 200,000 points doesn't contradict you

This is why you open a thread and propose the changes, rather than just making a mass edit.
You open a thread make a proposal and then get an agreement with your idea, so limits your risk of criticism or receiving negative votes. Or alternatively you may find as in this case the majority of s disagree with your proposals.

jooprm
berothbrjooprmIf this decision goes through, we should change all editions of the entire database starting for example: Blue Note Tone Poet Series, WaxTime, Analogue Productions, Speakers Corner Records, MFSL, Inc. and so on ..This is a fair point. For example, modern Blue Note Records releases are widely available worldwide, but for most the country is still just US because it’s a US label. At first glance, it doesn’t really make sense that we’re handling Waxtime differently.

Thank you.
While others think about it, I'm changing today's subs ...

All correct.
But this thread confronts everyone with a huge problem that stands out in all the subs related to the most famous labels. Coherence is such if applied massively on everything we have talked about

jooprm
While others think about it, I'm changing today's subs ...

Please stop editing. The discussion is still active.

steve.fletcher
Nobody is saying the label isn’t a Spanish based company. Discogs uses distribution and marketplace at the country of the release not the country of the label

Is there anything else here that indicates Europe beyond product availability?

berothbr
Please stop editing. The discussion is still active

jooprm it is unacceptable to edit while the discussion is active. This is not a race.

berothbr
berothbrPlease stop editing. The discussion is still active
jooprm it is unacceptable to edit while the discussion is active. This is not a race.

The decision of most of the people in the thread seems clear to me

There are no distribution credits on any of the releases I have, and I have not found a dedicated homepage for Wax Time. If anyone can find a web page for Wax Time please post a link.

jooprm
The decision of most of the people in the thread seems clear to me

This thread is still active and unresolved. Moreover, it’s only been open for just a few hours. What you are doing is completely unacceptable.

Edit: sorry if this sounded unfriendly. Let’s just slow down and not make hasty changes.

steve.fletcher
There are no distribution credits on any of the releases I have, and I have not found a dedicated homepage for Wax Time. If anyone can find a web page for Wax Time please post a link.

Here he official spanish website for WaxTime selling. I think...
https://www.jazzmessengers.com/en/

berothbr
jooprmThe decision of most of the people in the thread seems clear to me
This thread is still active and unresolved. Moreover, it’s only been open for just a few hours. What you are doing is completely unacceptable.

I stopped. No problem

steve.fletcher
There are no distribution credits on any of the releases I have, and I have not found a dedicated homepage for Wax Time.

If that is true, I don’t see what makes this different than with my Blue Note example.

jooprm
I stopped. No problem

thank you!

Jazz messengers link seems to be a store portal, not exclusively for wax time releases.

steve.fletcher
Jazz messengers link seems to be a store portal, not exclusively for wax time releases.

Yes I know. I've been following it for several years. About 10 years ago, at the beginning, he was the distributor and unique seller of WaxTime editions. It almost looked like he was the producer and owner of the label. It is now a major international distributor of all audiophile labels. I have no further elements. But erly the were only WaxTime distribution and selling (marketing, communication...etc)
https://www.jazzmessengers.com/en/content/4-about-us

But early they were

Just a thought.
I don’t know if anything has changed, so may no longer be relevant.
I always believed that Spanish releases have Deposito Legal codes and are ed
Whereas European releases would not require registration.
Section 6 of the pages below states that the Deposito Legal number must be printed on releases. As wax time releases do not have this Deposito Legal number, again leads me to believe they are intended for a European market not Spanish market.

http://www.bne.es/export/sites/BNWEB1/es/Servicios/PreguntasMasFrecuentes/docs/Deposito_Legal.pdf

I knew that the Spanish "Deposito Legal" was practiced many years ago (60s to erly 90s). I don't think it is valid anymore with the new unified European regulations. The difference is given only by the Rights Societies.
In any case, I don't think worldwide as country will be a solution that the Staff will consider. The Staff will never endorse it. It would mean changing the whole database

However, the fact that in Italy I buy a US record regularly distributed also in Canada, Japan and Israel ... it cannot be marked on Discogs as US. If a Canadian buys a record made and distributed by the German company Speakers Corner and simultaneously distributed in the UK, Argentina, Norway and China, it cannot be marked as Europe (least of all as )

steve.fletcher
As wax time releases do not have this Deposito Legal number, again leads me to believe they are intended for a European market not Spanish market.

The only geographic info on the release seems to be the Spanish address. Is there any else that indicates Europe (excluding availability)? I’m not seeing anything like a LC, distr. info, etc. on these. I know others feel differently, but I strongly disagree that product availability is what the “market” in RSG §7.1.1 is talking about. These global releases used to be called imports.

berothbr
steve.fletcherAs wax time releases do not have this Deposito Legal number, again leads me to believe they are intended for a European market not Spanish market.The only geographic info on the release seems to be the Spanish address. Is there any else that indicates Europe (excluding availability)? I’m not seeing anything like a LC, distr. info, etc. on these. I know others feel differently, but I strongly disagree that product availability is what the “market” in RSG §7.1.1 is talking about. These global releases used to be called imports.

On rear cover of my WaxTime records there is the SIAE holographic sticker with the words "IMPORT FONO" printed on it.
Goodnight

jooprm
No, in fact. So why should it be relegated to Europe alone? If it is as you say, the country must be eliminated.

Not necessarily true. Country on Discogs is intended market. If the intended market is Europe then Europe is the correct county, not Spain. If the intended market is actually global then blanking the country field is, as you say, the correct answer. You can use various clues on releases: where distributors are located, country codes, etc...

jooprm
On rear cover of my WaxTime records there is the SIAE holographic sticker with the words "IMPORT FONO" printed on it.

Understood, but the rights society does not determine country. It simply determines where royalties are collected.

berothbr
The only geographic info on the release seems to be the Spanish address. Is there any else that indicates Europe (excluding availability)? I’m not seeing anything like a LC, distr. info, etc. on these.

That does indicate the Spain would be the correct country. I'd need to look at a bunch of these releases. I don't own any so... I'm going to remain neutral on this one.

Fauni-Gena

That does indicate the Spain would be the correct country. I'd need to look at a bunch of these releases. I don't own any so... I'm going to remain neutral on this one.

As I did in the comments above, I take this title as an example for all the others.
Basically, all the editions of the label do not report either Made in EU, an LC xxxxx, a distribution item or a deductible market reference anywhere.
But all the titles have a postcard with the specifics of the country and city inside. A bit like Acoustic Sounds or Fantasy Inc. did with postcards inside (for example). The only difference is that the American labels / majors had written Made in USA on the back cover.
In any case, I think the substance does not change. In my opinion it is precisely the concept of the market that is wrong in the rules / guidelines and creates confusion. It would be more correct to insert the country belonging to the label or to leave the field blank in the case of global distribution. Because most of the labels, series and editions in the database are distributed and sold everywhere.
Anyway let me know when you have decided on a common line, because of the about one hundred subs I have changed now there are half in Spain and half in Europe :)
And let's that whatever decision is made, all the other labels (which I mentioned above such as SpeakersCorner, TonePoet / BlueNote, AnalogueProductions, MusicMatters-AcousTech, Doxy .... and many others) should also change the country of origin. They have been distributed everywhere, for years and even before the European Common Market.
The example of Warner US that also prints for Mexico is another striking example. The US / Mexico country should be entered as for EU & UK together. And now that the UK is no longer Europe? Apart from geopolitical map ..?
I repeat, there are a lot of black holes in the rules as we all know. But in this way these black holes become real chasms of error instead of improving them
(sorry for my english)

I would prefer Europe and added that often with WaxTime releases by myself, but...
But it is the same as ever: release country is not the same as distribution country/area.
WaxTime is undoubted from Spain, so one could say "release" country is Spain and "distribution" country is even worldwide. A lot of people who buyed these release in the US thought they are US-releases. You can see that often in the release histories.
So no final conclusion. Maybe Spain is the best?

Winnyl
I would prefer Europen and added that often with WaxTime releases by myself, but...
But it is the same as ever: release country is not the same as distribution country/area.
WaxTime is undoubted from Spain, so one could say "release" country is Spain and "distribution" country is even worldwide. A lot of people who buyed these release in the US thought they are US-releases. You can see that often in the release histories.
So no final conclusion. Maybe Spain is the best?

Probably as you say there is no middle way for this case as in others: either it is Spain or it is worldwide. At this point Europe only seems reductive. I don't know. We all have such different opinions and we are right at the same time. So...
The important thing is that there is a single line that can be applied to everything and not just to the need

berothbr
Is there any else that indicates Europe (excluding availability)?

Releases that are only to be marketed in Spain usually have notes in Spanish. Reissues of international releases usually keep their original english notes but often have additional inlays with notes in Spanish. You also find stuff like the Los Mejores Vinilos Del Sello Que Inventó El Jazz series with additional spanish booklets.
I've never seen a WaxTime release with anything but english notes, which clearly points to an intended market beyond Spain.

Fauni-Gena
I'd need to look at a bunch of these releases. I don't own any so... I'm going to remain neutral on this one.

AFAICT the releases shown in the images are consistent. .... If I were submitting one of these, it’s more likely that I would choose Spain than Europe due to the ack of evidence for the latter.

mr_mando
Releases that are only to be marketed in Spain usually have notes in Spanish. Reissues of international releases usually keep their original english notes but often have additional inlays with notes in Spanish. You also find stuff like the Los Mejores Vinilos Del Sello Que Inventó El Jazz series with additional spanish booklets.
I've never seen a WaxTime release with anything but english notes, which clearly points to an intended market beyond Spain.

So, do you mean worldwide?

mr_mando
Releases that are only to be marketed in Spain usually have notes in Spanish.

This is an interesting point, but I don’t think it’s persuasive on its own because there are plenty of counterexamples for this. Either way, I don’t have a strong opinion on this - there doesn’t seem to be a tremendous amount of info on this, so either option seems plausible.

Ok. It seems that all options remain open: specific country, Europe, world ..
Examples abound Analogue Productions. US? Certainly not, if we talk about the market / distribution. It is precisely the market parameter that is wrong.
This label has an ittedly global market, yet the country is still US. So I'm missing something. It would make more sense to match the labels to their country of origin rather than to the target market. It is obvious that the market is now worldwide. This would mean no longer entering the country from which a product comes. Then the concept of import and export will think about defining the market that doesn't seem so important to me today. Maybe it made sense until the 1990s. But now ...
I certainly cannot expect labels like this Disconforme SL to sell to a target market of a few square kilometers and a few thousand customers. They exported everywhere. Yet the country is Andorra. Correct. At least we know where it comes from

mr_mando
Pinging some forum regulars shoul help to clear this:
loukash

You know my take, right?
The "country/market of origin" concept is a [put any expletive in here you like] joke.

loukash
The "country/market of origin" concept is a [put any expletive in here you like] joke.

This does not help as long as this Discogs rule exists this way.

Nevertheless you are right... :-)

berothbr
jooprmThe decision of most of the people in the thread seems clear to me
This thread is still active and unresolved. Moreover, it’s only been open for just a few hours. What you are doing is completely unacceptable
Edit: sorry if this sounded unfriendly. Let’s just slow down and not make hasty changes.

+1

What are you proposing to do with UK then... also Europe or leave it as Country... ???

I don't see any consensus coming out from this discussion which was open by the way only one day ago... but I see one of my contributions already changed from Spain to Europe... I reverted back by giving negative vote ! As I explained there, the "Country" is giving more "pressing quality info" than a generic "Europe"... and Europe is not a Country like U.S. So if U.S., Japan, U.K. (see my post above) and others will be maintained "different European countries" should be also maintained... Did you already listen an Italian pressed Bill Evans ? if yes I believe that you would certainly prefer the same album pressed in or UK... Same while buying vinyls on Discogs... Not all the albums have the pressing plant name on their cover, but Country is already a precious indication... Therefore it is important for the vinyl guys like us to see the Country information rather than grouping countries under a group which will take this valuable info out of the database... my two cents

nergenek
berothbrjooprmThe decision of most of the people in the thread seems clear to me
This thread is still active and unresolved. Moreover, it’s only been open for just a few hours. What you are doing is completely unacceptable
Edit: sorry if this sounded unfriendly. Let’s just slow down and not make hasty changes.

+1

berothbr rightly pointed out to me to wait.
But now I see instead you enjoyed giving an EI even though you knew about the discussion. I add that the changes I made also referred toi other elements such as the series, the format and the BaOI. Congratulations on your vast knowledge of voting. It's better if you give it another read ...
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/it/release/10464455-Ballads/history?diff=10&page=1

https://.discogs.cinepelis.org/hc/it/articles/360005055593-Database-Guidelines-20-Voting-Guidelines#Voting
RSG §1.4.1
RSG §20.3.1

nergenek
but Country is already a precious indication...

Your take is not backed up by guidelines. And your reasoning would make the WaxTime catalog Czech releases.

jooprm you should report those votes to Discogs.

berothbr
nergenek those EI votes are unacceptable and unfair.

jooprm you should report those votes to Discogs.

thank you nergenek's right to vote. I avoid doing it.
So, I give him the opportunity to compensate for the unjustified vote with other CC on my profile: if he wants. Nobody forces him. Thanks

Gentlemen, I agree that my EI vote was a bit strong and probably wrong and unfair only for one change... this is because I have no time to read all the guidelines of the Discogs which are not by the way always clear and easy to understand... I saw that a vote was expecting from me and I simply did chose the one which seems to me adequate to refuse the change... Afterwards I discovered that there was a forum discussion going on this (rightly mentioned by jooprm... Sorry for that.
Now coming back to the discussion, if the subject is only concerning Waxtime I have no problem to mention it as Europe, we all know that it is from Spain and the quality is as it is...
My concern is with other editions where I believe that the country should be kept to give an opinion of the pressing quality.
Last but not least I do not understand why such an important decision is taken in a forum thread where only a handful of are discussing and deciding without informing the rest of the who will be also impacted. I thought there was another decision mechanism in Discogs.
I hope that clarifies my position about this discussion.

berothbr maybe I should have followed your advice. But it is never too late.

Again !! Another abusive vote by the https://discogs.cinepelis.org/it/release/14571985-Pure-Imagination/history?utm_campaign=submission-activity&utm_source=relationship&utm_medium=pm#latest
With the previous EI there are now two
nergenek you win a doll = SR. I think you must read Guidelines and the Voting Rules.
I hope "Someone" takes away your right to vote but above all puts you in CIP. I think you need to think for a while
Your behavior is unacceptable!

jooprm
berothbr maybe I should have followed your advice. But it is never too late.

Again !! Another abusive vote by the nergenek
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/it/release/14571985-Pure-Imagination/history?utm_campaign=submission-activity&utm_source=relationship&utm_medium=pm#latest
With the previous EI there are now two
https://discogs.cinepelis.org/it/release/10464455-Ballads/history?diff=10&page=1

nergenek you win a doll = SR. I think you must read Guidelines and the Voting Rules.
I hope "Someone" takes away your right to vote but above all puts you in CIP. I think you need to think for a while
Your behavior is unacceptable!

Well you changed "Tenor Saxophone" which was right to "Saxophone" which is not right... and I voted "some minor changes needed"... why you say that it is abusive vote ?

nergenek
I hope that clarifies my position about this discussion.

Your voting is both unfair and unacceptable.

nergenek
My concern is with other editions where I believe that the country should be kept to give an opinion of the pressing quality.

Subjective opinions do not belong on the release page. RSG §11.3

nergenek
Well you changed "Tenor Saxophone" which was right to "Saxophone" which is not right... and I voted "some minor changes needed"... why you say that it is abusive vote ?

Your votes are unacceptable because there is an active discussion concerning these edits. No vote should be cast until it has concluded. You have already been advised of this.

jooprm

So, I give him the opportunity to compensate for the unjustified vote with other CC on my profile: if he wants. Nobody forces him. Thanks

Will you please tell me what I have to do ? Thanks